This week on listening to America with Clay Jenkinson, 10 Things, the real Patrick Henry.

My conversation with frequent guest, Dr. Lindsay Trevinsky, on Patrick Henry.

Henry began life as a shopkeeper, but rose to be the governor of Virginia and one of the handful of most important rabble-rousers

in the American Revolution. Henry and Jefferson were, well, frenemies. At one point, Jefferson

the deus said to his friend Madison that we must pray for Henry's early death. This was probably

a joke, but Jefferson was pretty critical of Henry, and he never forgave him for stirring up a

legislative investigation

into Jefferson's conduct as the beleaguered wartime governor of Virginia. Henry refused to attend

the Constitutional Convention in 1787 because he said he smelt a rat, all of that and more,

on this week's listening to America.

Clay Jenkinson is a public humanity scholar, a writer, a master interviewer, and moderator, documentary filmmaker, and a historical impersonator, a Chautauqua. He is the author of 13 books spanning topics

from Thomas Jefferson, the Lewis and Clark Expedition, Theodore Roosevelt, the literature

of pandemics, and his beloved North Dakota.

He is frequently featured as an expert commentator on historical documentaries collaborating

with the likes of Ken Burns and Doris Kearns Goodwin.

Dr. Lindsay M. Trevinsky is a presidential historian,

an institution, as well as making the presidency,

John Adams, and the precedents that forged the Republic.

In addition, she is also co-editor of mourning the presidents,

loss and legacy in American culture.

She regularly writes for public audiences

in the Wall Street Journal,

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