165 Expert Witnesses and the TMO
The Grenfell Tower Inquiry Podcast
BBC
4.8 • 627 Ratings
🗓️ 30 July 2021
⏱️ 43 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
“An necessary tragedy”. The inquiry revealed the Local Government Association was warned in 2011 that its failure to recommend evacuation plans for residents with disabilities could lead to an ‘unnecessary tragedy’. Expert witness Colin Todd gave evidence on the work of fire risk assessor Carl Stokes and answered questions about guidance he helped draw up.
The inquiry’s expert witness on building control Beryl Menzies examined the role the council’s building control department had played signing off the smoke ventilation system at Grenfell Tower. Abigail Acosta, a Project Manager at the TMO, also gave evidence.
Presenter / Producer: Kate Lamble Producer: Sharon Hemans Researcher: May Cameron Studio Mix: Gareth Jones
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts. |
| 0:05.3 | Hello and welcome to the Grenfell Tower Inquiry podcast with me, Kate Lamble. |
| 0:09.7 | This week, the inquiry heard from more expert witnesses who gave their views on the fire risk assessments |
| 0:14.6 | and smoke extraction system installed in Grenfell Tower. |
| 0:18.5 | And we learnt that the local government association was warned six years before the fire at Grenfell that its failure to recommend evacuation plans for residents with disabilities could lead to tragedy. And according to one of the enquiries expert witnesses, building control should not have issued a completion certificate for work on the smoke ventilation system. |
| 0:42.4 | Let's start then with Colin Todd, who's been asked to give his expert opinion on the fire risk assessments carried out on Grenfell Tower by the independent contractor Carl Stokes. |
| 0:47.4 | Colin Todd has worked in fire engineering for over 40 years and has contributed to several |
| 0:51.9 | important sets of guidance, including what's known as |
| 0:54.8 | Pass 79, which sets out how fire risk assessors should complete their work. Before we get into |
| 1:01.1 | his evidence, I should mention there are two controversies surrounding Colin Todd's role as an expert |
| 1:05.8 | witness. The first is that earlier this year, it was revealed by inside housing that Colin Todd's son |
| 1:11.6 | works as the head of fire safety for the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, the council |
| 1:16.5 | which owned Grenfell Tower. Keith Todd was appointed to that position two years after the Grenfell |
| 1:22.8 | fire and after his father had been appointed as an expert witness to the inquiry. |
| 1:30.8 | Grenfell United described the situation as distressing, |
| 1:33.3 | but the inquiry said it was satisfied. |
| 1:35.8 | Expert witness's opinion is independent. |
| 1:41.0 | The second controversy is that some of the guidance Colin Todd has been involved in drafting has come up in the inquiry, |
| 1:43.1 | because it suggested that producing evacuation |
| 1:45.2 | plans for disabled residents was unrealistic. We'll come to that later in the program. In the meantime, |
| 1:52.7 | fire risk assessments are necessary because of legislation known as the fire safety order, |
| 1:57.4 | which stated that there should be suitable and sufficient assessment of the |
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