Hello, everyone. Welcome to this introduction to this week's podcast, Joe Ellis, my dear friend

from Massachusetts. We had a really interesting conversation about what just happened. And, you know,

just between us, you know, Joe is a democratic partisan. And so I always worry a little because

he's so outspokenly liberal. And even though he's, of course, absolutely entitled to that view of the world, of course,

I don't think it's best for a historian to try to coalesce one's personal politics with

one's historical outlook.

In other words, if he were a

mega conservative or like a George Will conservative, let's say, and he then talked about the election

and saying that this is really terrible for the Constitution and the new president is doing

some dangerous things that are against the rule of law and so on.

That would have more credibility, of course, if he's speaking from the right and decrying this.

But if you're speaking from the left, then it's easy to say, well, I mean, that's what they say,

those Democrats, right?

Those liberals, that's all they do.

And so I'm always trying to keep it as close as possible to history and to try to provide

clarification and insight rather than just whatever our opinion happens to be about what's

just happened.

And I do think, and I'll say this, and I say it without apology, but no person who has

studied the founding generation can avoid being alarmed by what's

happening.

That we always thought that the norms would hold, that there would be a responsible presidential

deportment, that there would be no bullying or name-calling, that the rule of law would be

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