Hi there, I'm Jason Gots, and you're listening to Think Again, a Big Think podcast.

As the Wu-Tang Clan once put it, cash moves everything around me. Get the money. Dollar, dollar,

bill, y'all. I grew up not wanting to believe this. All the stuff that seemed worth having

was hard to put a price tag on,

but in a global capitalist world, there's a lot of hard, sad truth to it. As an American child of the

1980s, I absorbed the message, find yourself, follow your passions, but there are powerful economic

forces at work shaping our lives and opportunities. My guests today experienced this in the most

intense way imaginable wrangling with the European Union over the economy of his country, Greece,

in the aftermath of the 2008 financial meltdown. He saw firsthand what a house of cards global

capitalism can be and what can happen to the ones on the bottom. Janus Varifakis is Greece's former finance minister and the author of two wonderful recent books,

adults in the room and talking to my daughter about the economy.

Welcome to think again, Janice.

It's very good to be here.

When I first saw your book talking to my daughter about the economy, and I've dived into both.

I've fully read talking to my daughter about the economy, and I've dived into both. I've fully read talking to my daughter about the economy, and I've read a good portion of adults in the room.

I was very pleased to see such a book, because I feel like, you know, you have this premise

that the economy is too important to leave to the experts.

And yet, people who don't feel like experts in economics often feel that they have no place at the table, no place in the conversation.

It's all about democracy.

If the demos is going to be allowed back into democracy, if the people are allowed to be in control of their affairs,

of their lives through the democratic process.

You cannot say to them, leave the economy to the experts, because the economy undercapitalism

...