Have you ever wondered what a sandwich sounds like?

Not much to it, is there?

Unless, of course, it's a Walker's sandwich.

Mmm, that is good.

Now that's what Asani should sound like.

Go all crisp in with walkers.

Delicious.

Hi there, I'm Jason Gatz, and you're listening to Think Again, a Big Think podcast.

Ambition and loyalty.

What we want versus what we already have and should be grateful for.

When there's conflict here, in some ways it's a tension between loyalty to others and loyalty to ourselves, or maybe loyalty to who we are now versus another possible future self.

Have I over-complicated my life out of impatience and ingratitude?

Have I broken something precious beyond repair? Or on the other hand,

am I missing out on the life I'm supposed to have? Sometimes I think a lot of the trouble comes from

the misunderstanding that these have to be opposing forces at all. These kinds of questions and choices

are at the heart of Meg Wollitzer's novels, of which there are many. She's the author of the

Interestings and her newest wonderful book,

The Female Persuasion. I'm excited to be talking to her about it today. Welcome to think again, Meg.

Thank you. So your writing reminds me a little bit of Raymond Carver, not quite that minimalist,

but it is somehow simultaneously very, very simple and very complex. And I'm

wondering whether that's something that has emerged for you over time. It feels as if the book

just writes itself. I once heard somebody say that the book that writes itself will have to

...