Growing up, I spent a lot of time in my father's research lab. He was a doctor and a lot of his studies were done on mice and rats.

So when an organization called PETA, people for the ethical treatment of animals,

started to gain prominence in part because of their opposition to animal testing, I was

told they were radicals, terrorists even.

The bigger challenge I have is saying to people,

I used to wear a fur coat.

I used to eat my way through the Animal Kingdom

with my father who used to eat calves, brains on toast.

But I did see videos, I did see photographs, I did go to places,

and I know that you're probably a kind person.

And so you would not wish to support those kinds of industries if you saw it too.

Welcome to people I mostly admire with Steve Leavitt.

That's Ingrid Newkirk talking. She started Pita more than 40 years ago and she's been running PETA more than 40 years ago, and she's been running PETA ever since.

Today, I get to talk with her for the first time.

Is she a radical, a terrorist?

Let's find out. You started people for the ethical treatment of animals back in 1980, and you've been running it for more than 40 years now and I'm

sure everyone already knows PETA but how do you describe the organization to someone who

isn't familiar with it? Well I I think it's pretty simple, even though people think we're edgy and we're

envelope pushes and perhaps we are.

If something is something you wouldn't do to yourself or you wouldn't have done to you, then it's very easy to understand,

you shouldn't do it to others. So we're against anything that's cruel and we're determined to go behind the scenes, go to places people don't visit like slaughterhouses and fur farms

and show people what's actually happening to animals back there. Do the homework for them.

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