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Hello and welcome to the Grenfell Tower Inquiry podcast with me, Kate Lamble.

This week, the inquiry heard more evidence from former employees of Sellatex,

the company which made the insulation, used on most of the exterior of Grenfell Tower.

And from what we heard, we got a real sense of how competitive and

profit-driven this industry was. Zellatex was so eager to compete with its commercial rival,

Kingspan, that one of the company's employees said it would do whatever it took to release an

insulation product suitable for use on high-rise buildings. And I have to say, it was pretty extraordinary

to hear some of those former staff members admit to behaving unethically and dishonestly,

even that they lied for commercial gain. We'll get to the detail of that shortly. But we're

going to start some years before Sellotex began selling the insulation, which was ultimately used on Grenfell Tower.

Paul Evans joined Celetex's marketing team in 2007.

It was his first job in the construction industry, and he had no technical experience or qualifications.

And his early experiences with the company tell us a lot about how Celetext regarded regulations

and the certification bodies which had to approve materials for use.

It's probably not a surprise that one of the main things insulation is chosen for is its thermal properties.

Values which show how much heat a material conducted were very important in showing how effective it was.

And yet, as early as 2009, evidence showed that Celetex was not being entirely honest

about the value its insulation achieved.

There was a process for testing which was put into the business, which used as a selective data process.

By selective data process, Paul Evans meant that Celetex only counted readings

which could help them achieve the company's advertised thermal efficiency

...