Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday

co-host writer and researcher Nick Pell. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories,

secrets and skills are the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical

advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long-forms conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though, we do skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as weddings, funerals, homeopathy, hypnosis, advertising, and internet porn. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and

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Today we're talking about drug addiction and rehab, whether it's you, a family member, a friend,

a coworker, or even just somebody on television, chances are good that you're familiar with the subject of going to rehab. It starts with hitting rock bottom, and then the family intervention where everybody gets all weepy and shares their feelings. Then there's the 40 days of inpatient, where they don't let you drink coffee or take your anxiety meds. And it all ends with the perfect redemption of the

person involved, provided that they attend 12-step meetings for the rest of their natural life.

That's how it works in Hollywood anyway, but what about in real life? This model of recovery is

based around the premise that addiction is a quote-unquote disease and that rehab is the treatment

for that disease. In fact, this model is so deeply

ingrained in the American mind that lots of you are probably wondering why I'm even saying all this.

This is all just true, right? Well, what if addiction isn't a disease? What if rehab often doesn't

work? And what if it's less about recovery and more about business? Are 12-step programs like

A-A really the only way for people to get clean? What does get clean even mean? Here today to help

me kick the myths and clean up the story is writer and researcher Nick Pell. Nick, have you ever been

to rehab? In the words of Amy Winehouse, no, no, no. And the only 12-step meetings I've ever been to were as moral support for friends of mine over 30 years ago.

Aren't you in high school 30 years ago?

I was in like middle school.

Oh, my God.

A meetings.

...