What up. This is Cortland from Andy Hackers.com, and you're listening to the Andy Hackers

podcast. On this show, I talked to the founders of profitable internet businesses, and I'm trying

to get a sense of what it's like to be in their shoes. How do they get to where they are today?

How do they make decisions, both at their companies and in their personal lives,

and what exactly makes their businesses tick?

The goal here, as always, is so that the rest of us can learn from their examples

and go on to build our own, profitable, successful internet businesses.

Today, I am talking to Stelly FD.

Steli, welcome back to the NDHackers podcast.

It's so awesome to be back. Thank you.

It's awesome to have you back. You are the founder of a company called Close. You know more about sales and pretty much anybody that I know. And so today's episode is going to be all about sales. What should early stage founders know about how to sell? The thing about Indy Hackers is that most of us are developers and we're not exactly a group known for being

enthusiastic about sales. In fact, most of us would prefer if we had nothing to do with sales

whatsoever. However, most of the successful founders, including developer founders that I've

spoken to, have had sales play a very large role in their business. So it's crucial to learn

how to sell. I will defer to you, Stelle. You're the

expert here. Where do we even start on this topic? Yeah, where do we start? I think first and

foremost, let's talk about like our relationship with selling, especially in the indie hacker

community, right? Or when you're kind of, maybe from a background that is more technical and

less in the kind of sales and marketing world.

I do think that sales has a bad rap deserve, in a kind of deserve fashion, right?

There's a lot of people that I, a lot of my friends that are not coming from a sales

background that always kind of told me that when they think of salespeople and selling, it was just like,

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