Four, three, two, one, and we're live.

Hello, Dennis.

Hi, Joe.

Great to see you, it's great to be here, as always, it's great to be here. It's great to be here.

As always, it's great to be here.

So tell me about this, these cards you gave me, and what this is all about.

Okay, well, this is an interesting project. This is about the RV Heraclitus, which was associated with the Institute for Ecotechnics, which is...

Try to keep this, like this close to your face.

Okay, further associated with, you know, how do I explain it?

It was actually a theater company called the Theater of All Possibilities, but the Institute for

Ecotechnics was started in the early 70s, and they built a ship, this Chinese junk, essentially, with a feral concrete hall.

And my connection was they have cruise, cruise the world, essentially, since 1973 1973 looking into different things relevant to

global ecology they've done sampling in the Antarctic and in 1981 they decided to

go to the Amazon and I was doing my and in Institute of Ecotectics. And, you know, at the time, I thought these people are nuts.

I mean, they were kind of nuts and they were very naive about what they were doing as far as doing

ethnobitanical work. Not that I wasn't naive about it at the time but I had a

better handle on it than they did. Anyway that was the original connection and the same

group years after I had more or less you know kind of severed I didn't really

sever my relationship but I kind of severed I didn't really sever my relationship, but I kind of

distance myself from them but then that same group went on in the 80s to build

biosphere 2 which you probably heard of.

They had financing for Biosphere 2, so they'd gone to a whole other level of ambition and madness.

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