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Welcome to History of the Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson. And today we take a

brief respite from our usual story driven telling of American history to have a very interesting

conversation with a dear friend of mine who happens to be an expert on law of war. And

given that we've recently discussed General Order 100 in the Philippines, I thought

this was the perfect time to bring Professor Ryan Vogel to History that doesn't suck.

Ryan, do you mind saying hello to the good people? Hello there. Happy to be here. Ryan,

so let me get your impressive credentials out there so everyone knows just what a pro

you are. You earned your law degrees, not degree, but degrees, as one does. From American

University and Georgetown, after that, you spent a decade, roughly, in Washington, D.C. working

for the federal government where you advised the Secretary of Defense and spent several

years bouncing mostly at the Department of Defense, but you did a year with the Department

of State. And you've been the guantanamo. That's true. That's true. Many times.

Exactly. Now you were there again in an advising role on legalities and detention. So you've

had a very fascinating career before, of course, gained to your true pinnacle, which was

becoming the founding director of the Center for National Security Studies at Utah Valley

University and continued to teach courses on the law of war, which you've done at other

...