I'm John Bachelor with Joseph Sternberg of the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

Life in London. Joe lives in London. A remark by the Home Secretary, the new Home Secretary,

Shabana Mahmood, about what is to be done with the immigrants who are crossing the English Channel

extremely dangerously.

You climb in a rubber raft and go out to the North Sea or the English Channel in any

weather, and you are aware that you're dead if something happens, anything happens at all.

If you're wearing a life vest and a rubber raft and you're balancing

on the side of this because you're male or you're female and the children are in the middle,

you're putting your whole family and your life at risk. And yet hundreds of thousands, we're told,

have done this. And they enter the United Kingdom with the hope of a better world. They're fleeing

dislocations generally in the global south, but everywhere. Wars, civil wars, violence.

They arrive and now the policy. Joe, as I understand that the policy is complicated and has been

developed over many years,

but I have a headline in the London Times right now. It suggests there's great controversy about

Mahmoud's remarks and Labor versus Labor. Mahmood using children as weapons, says Lord

Dubbs. He's a senior member of the parliament for labor.

He is also identified as a man who was one of the children from the Jews who escaped the Holocaust many years ago.

He's speaking out against the policy.

How is the policy being received?

It's very complicated, but it has to do with either financial inducement or dislocation of the people already in Britain.

Well, I mean, the problem that they've got is that immigration is as controversial in the UK as it is everywhere else.

And part of it, only part of it, but not a small part of it,

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