102 — Dutch Journalists: Words Matter…The Media’s Influence to Share or to Silence
Gender: A Wider Lens
Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley
4.6 • 961 Ratings
🗓️ 17 February 2023
⏱️ 72 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The development of the Dutch protocol, and the research conducted from its practice, has become the basis for gender-related medical intervention in children all over the world; specifically, using drugs to block children's puberty and subsequently using cross-sex hormones and surgery to medicalize their 'transition.' The Dutch model has the reputation of being the “gold standard of care” for youth transgender medicine and is often cited when defending the use of puberty blockers and surgeries in minors and young adults. In many ways, it created the possibility of gender 'transition' in children.
On today’s episode, Sasha and Stella welcome Dutch journalist, Jan Kuitenbrouwer and Dutch sociologist, Peter Vasterman. The two collaborated and most recently published an article; (translated title) “Trans Care Too Must Meet Health Science Standards”, weighing caution to the quality of the standard of care for transgender health and medicine, virtually all based on and adapted from the Dutch model of care.
Jan Kuitenbrouwer is Dutch writer, journalist, award-winning columnist and bestselling author, who has published extensively on gender and the trans movement since early last year. His 40+ year career yields an extensive body of work centered around themes exploring social and cultural trends, information technology, politics, and language.
Dr. Peter Vasterman is a media sociologist and former assistant professor of media sociology at the University of Amsterdam, department of Media Studies, as well as coordinator of the Master in Journalism. He obtained his PhD in 2004 at the University of Amsterdam with a dissertation, titled “Mediahype” on the effect of media hypes on news topics such as senseless violence, His main research areas include: media hypes and the role of the (social) media in the construction of social problems, scandals, crises and disasters.
In this conversation, you will hear them both speak about the prideful nature of Dutch culture: the Dutch often hold themselves in high esteem for being a ‘gidsland’, a beacon of progression for the rest of the world. In a culture where conformity is a highly valued way of life, the Dutch may leave little room for debate and contrast. As such, it is to no surprise that the Dutch mainstream media played a substantial role in promoting early medical interventions for youth with gender dysphoria. Peter and Jan discuss the challenges they faced when attempting to publish pieces which objectively review the full context of the medical protocol. Stories which attempt to frame the Dutch Protocol as anything other than a leading medical innovation with impressive aesthetic outcomes seemed to have been hushed and rejected in the news. Media messaging extravagantly lacked attention to the complicated elements of the medical pathway, and silenced the voices who tried to draw attention to the dangerous risks associated with the transgender treatments for youth.
Links:
Jan Kuitenbrouwer:
https://twitter.com/kuitenbrouwer
https://www.hpdetijd.nl/auteurs/jan-kuitenbrouwer/
Links to Articles:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BramcMXake0JCB454My06ChP9siI8OS94Thv3izp_h0/edit
Peter Vasterman:
https://twitter.com/PeterVasterman
http://vasterman.blogspot.com/
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:13.2 | You know how when something remarkable or bizarre happens we kind of expect to see a lot of coverage about it in the media you know and actually the media is criticized a lot of the time for taking a small small incident and blowing it up into a huge story. |
| 0:16.6 | So we expect to see a lot of coverage, |
| 0:19.1 | especially about things that are unbelievable or shocking or remarkable or that never happened. |
| 0:26.1 | Yeah and this is what we're going to talk about with our guest today. |
| 0:29.6 | Jan and Peter are two seasoned and award-winning journalists and they're going to tell us about their |
| 0:34.8 | experience in trying to report on the experimental Dutch protocol for puberty blockers. |
| 0:41.6 | They're going to speak about how the rise in the number of young girls |
| 0:45.1 | seeking transition which we've mentioned so many times on our on our podcast and the way that |
| 0:49.2 | the language has radically transformed around gender identity and they followed it and they tried to bring this story to the media. |
| 0:57.6 | And like Jan is like you know a seasoned journalist. |
| 1:01.0 | Peter is a very academic sociologist and yet they came up against |
| 1:06.0 | unbelievable roadblocks and concerted efforts to keep their story, which they |
| 1:11.4 | were just a bit of criticism of the Dutch model, they were really, really shut down. |
| 1:16.8 | And so we discuss how the Dutch are very proud to be pioneers in social experiments. |
| 1:20.7 | However, this pride seems to have led to a certain conformity of thought among the Dutch society and definitely resistance to criticism. |
| 1:29.0 | Yeah, so for context, you know, the Dutch protocol is important because when you look at what's happening right now with kids who have gender dysphoria or struggling with their bodies, it has become pretty commonplace to hear about puberty blockers as like the standard go-to intervention. |
| 1:45.4 | It's often referred to as a pause button or a chance for families to think and see what's going to happen. |
| 1:50.2 | And this protocol of blocking a of kids puberty to help them perhaps later |
| 1:55.7 | transition was started in the Netherlands. This was kind of an unheard of |
| 1:59.8 | concept before the early 20, around 2008, 2007. |
| 2:05.8 | So this all started there in the Netherlands |
| 2:08.0 | and it's often referred to as the kind of gold standard |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

