Hey guys, Sarah Longwell here, publisher of the bulwark. If you're a fan of the next level with me, Tim, and JVL, then we think you're going to love the secret podcast.

Now, the secret pod usually just comes out on Fridays. It's me and JVL. We argue about everything, why he hates people, why I like people, you know.

But it's an opportunity to go a lot

deeper with us. We often talk about our kids and movies and other things, not just politics.

And look, we don't do a lot behind the paywall. JVL always says, and I agree with him, you can't

save democracy from behind a paywall. And so we try to do

almost everything at the bulwark for free. But we also got to keep the lights on. And so we paywall

the secret pod and we ask people to go a little deeper with us. Come ride with us. Come hang out with us.

We think you're going to love it. And this week, actually, I've got Bill Crystal because JVL is on vacation with me on The Secret Pod. Subscribe on iTunes here on Apple. You'll get the whole show. I think you're going to love it. I think you're going to love going to love going to love going to love going to love going to love going to go and I do every week. If you like T&L, this is for you. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the

Secret Podcast on The Bullwork. JVL is out today. I'm here with my other best friend, Bill Crystal.

Bill, what's up? Good morning. Welcome to the Secret Pod. It's great. It's an honor to be on the

secret pod. Very restricted to just a very, very few people for you and JVL. So happy to pinch it.

These are the people who go deep with us. What's going on? What's going on in secret there, Sarah?

Well, here's what I'm excited about, because JVL and I have an ongoing conversation in which the secret pod listeners, I assume, are quite invested

about, you know, the nature of good and evil, human beings. Are they good or are they bad?

Are they smart or are they stupid? I think you can imagine which side JVL takes, which side I take.

But you and I also have our own ongoing

conversation because you have a substack show that you do on Sundays. And when I come on,

we tend to have, you and I talk have two things that we're sort of mutually obsessed by.

One is how do we get Donald Trump to 32% approval rating for people who have not been listening

to Bill and I have this conversation?

You should know two things.

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