Before we get started, I'm going on tour this winter around the US and Canada, and you can join me.

It's an hour and a half-long show. There's a half-hour Q&A at the end. There's meet and greet.

There's music warmed up before I get started by Zach Tallander and tickets are limited, and you can get yours right now.

New York, Boston, Chicago, Austin, Salt Lake City and Denver still have limited tickets left at Chris Williamson. That's Chris Williamson.com. All right. Let's get into it. The first time that we recorded, you were going from London to Edinburgh, maybe to do the fringe? Yes, it was at the Edinburgh fringe. Stopped off at my house. Yes. This is 2019 or 2018?

It was a long time ago.

Yeah.

We did the podcast in your living room. Correct. Yeah. It was nice and homely. Yeah. This is a bit more minimalist. Yeah. Yeah. It's much more sterile. I saw a tweet earlier on that I thought was pretty interesting. the left's greatest enemy is not the right, but the hard left. The right's greatest enemy is not the left, but the hard right. The lunatics on your own side make you look much sillier than the opposition ever could. Yeah. Well, there's a problem, isn't there at the moment? Which is that there seems to be more of an overlap between the left and the hard left, which doesn't exist to the same degree.

It does exist on the right, but not to the same degree.

So I think, I mean, I've made the case that I think the left has to really disavow the lunatics within its own house.

That's something they really, really need to do because I've been really shocked since this horrific murder of Charlie Kirk seeing the extent of left-wing mainstream left-wing voices attempting to justify it.

And I know that always happens.

You know, if you go back to the Brighton bombing at the Tory Party conference back in the early 80s, if you go back to the death of Margaret Thatcher, there were some people who were rejoicing in death and celebrating death. So you always get a bit of that. And it's always grotesquely unpleasant whenever you see it. That track was number one, right? I don't think it quite got to number. Oh, maybe it did. The witch is dead. Yeah, yeah. The one, not hi-ho, it was ding-dong. You're confusing Wizard of Oz with the dwarves from Snow White. And those two should be conflated in a mash-up form and remixed. I think that should happen. Go on. But it is true that there's always that kind of thing.

But I've never seen the extent of it.

Like there's thousands and thousands of them.

Why do you think that is?

Because I think there's too much of an eroded boundary between that far left and left.

You know, the mainstream left, just as the mainstream right, has a kind of responsibility to distance itself

from the more egregious crazy people on their own side, although they're not really on their side. But, you know, on the further extremes of the political spectrum, and if you don't do that, in the public imagination, the two become conflating. What does distancing yourself look like? It looks like saying, I don't agree when someone celebrates murder. Right. And who the hell is this to claim to represent my political position.

It's actually not that hard to do. It looks like saying, I don't agree when someone celebrates murder. Right. And who the hell is this to claim to represent my political position?

It's actually not that hard to do.

Um, it's been very, any movement.

I mean, look, uh, there was a clip of a, uh, trans pride protest in London where an

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