What up ladies, I'm Lisa Bilyu and this is Women of Impat and now most people don't end up in toxic relationships because they're stupid right because Manipulation doesn't actually look like manipulation at first. It looks like chemistry It looks like beautiful intensity. It looks like someone who feels familiar in that way They can't quite explain and by the time the red flags bloody show you're already emotionally invested already questioning yourself and already you wondering how the hell you missed it. Now that's why I bought on Dr. Orion Taraban.

Dr. Orion is a clinical psychologist who specialises in relationship dynamics, attraction and the subtle psychological patterns that actually keep people stuck choosing the wrong partner even when they swear that they won't do it again. Now I'm gonna warn you ladies, he has a way of describing things that may, may rub you the wrong way. But here's the thing, he's breaking down the early mechanics of manipulation and why many smart, self-aware people like us women keep falling in these toxic relationship traps. And I really want to empower and urge change. This isn't fluff, like I don't show up and you guys don't show up listen to this podcast just to be so fully entertained is to actually learn, take the hard knocks and get back up so that we can fricken have the life that we want and sometimes that's going to mean someone saying something that maybe frustrates you but I'm telling you if you can listen to this interview with your ears and eyes wide open oh my god the nuggets of gold that he spills will life-changing. So today we're getting into the 10 principles of power and how manipulation actually works at the beginning of a relationship so that you can spot it before you're emotionally hooked. We also go over why red flags get ignored in the name of chemistry and so you can actually tell the difference between real connection and emotional manipulation before you ever get attached. And finally in this part we talk about the psychological tactics manipulators you to test your boundaries. So you can stop blaming yourself and actually start seeing the patterns once and for all. Now the most dangerous people don't show up waving the flag. Or if they do, they wave the white flag that actually is really a red one. They test you, they slowly, slowly flip the power dynamic and if you don't know what actually to look for it's easy to mistake manipulation for connection. But once you see the pattern, once you stop calling it bad luck and you actually stop repeating it, that's when your life will change forever and that's when you can finally build your confidence. So let's get into part one with Dr. Orion Tarot band right here on Women of Impact. You have something that you call the 10 Principles of Power and I love this on multiple levels. I love it because A is kind of like a red flags of if men try to overpower you. Here are some tactics that they may use but I also love it as a woman if she wants to take back her power and not just give herself over immediately. So I'd love to go through the 10 principles if you're okay with that. Sure. Okay, so we've got number one, you say so the most powerful person in a relationship dynamic is the one that moves less. It's always the less powerful who moves to the more powerful. Always. A king or a queen sits on the throne in the center of the kingdom and if you want an audience, you go to the throne. The king doesn't go around the countryside and moves to every person who wants to have a word with him. Like, he sits in the center of the kingdom and the kingdom revolves around him. So I made an episode called Don't Chase that speaks to this. Every dating expert who talks to both men and women are telling this piece of advice and it's kind of true in the sense that the one who approaches the other is sort of the disadvantaged party in that interaction. The issue is you have to be real with yourself. And it's like, if I'm just gonna sit back and wait for Sydney, we need to give me a call on my phone. Come on, Sydney, I'm waiting. Like, it's probably, I'm gonna be waiting for a while. So people also have to be very honest with themselves and they think, oh, I'm not getting what I want. So therefore, I'm just gonna stop chasing. I'm gonna stop pursuing. I'm gonna stop going to what I'm attracted and that's gonna help things. Now, in many cases, it's gonna make things worse because no one is beating down their door anyway. I would also say that unfortunately, women are bad at it. But they are. Like, there's been a few times where women have approached me at a bar and their lines and their approaches were just terrible. Oh, well, what? I do remember that. They were just so... Well, actually, they were kind of stiff because you could tell that she was nervous. Am I of sympathy for the ex? I was like, I know what it's like to be nervous to approach a woman. But they generally lead with legs. They lead with like playful insults, but because they're kind of feeling nervous, the tone is off, and so it feels a little bit more insulting than I probably should. But I think that's a failure of intersexual understanding, is that I think negs work on women more than they work on men. And women think, oh, this is how men have picked me up in the past. So I'm just gonna do two men, what has worked on me. And that doesn't work. Men and women are generally want and need different things. How did Neckland or Newden? I think that there's a very interesting psychological power dimension that's occurring in negging. And one of the things that occurs is it does assert dominance. It does assert that I'm more powerful and that I'm more importantly not afraid of you. And let me tell you, men are terrified of so many women. Really? I mean, especially beautiful women. Men are terrified by beautiful women. Like beauty destroys men. Like they make them speechless. They don't think straight. They get frozen in in action. Like beauty is one of the most powerful equalizers in the eternal game between men and women. And when a man can be playfully critical of a woman, the subcommunication is, I'm not intimidated by you. I'm not intimidated by your beauty. I'm even saying that there might be something a little flawed about your beauty and seeing how you respond. And it's communicating that like, I'm used to being here on some level. I used to talking to beautiful women. I feel safe and unthreatened by you. Your beauty doesn't have the effect on me that it does on 90% of men, which already distinguishes them from 90% of men behaviorally, like it's a revealed difference. That's the Pete Davidson move. What's the Pete Davidson? Pete Davidson is the SNL comedian. He was very popular for a few years because he was just dating one gorgeous woman after another. I think for some time it was Kim Kardashian. Oh, I know him. Yeah, it's very what that is. I think Kim hosted SNL and then invited the entire cast and crew over to her house for an after party and Pete's the only one that didn't show up and And she was just like, who the fuck is this guy?

That he had something better to do? Then okay, I need to know what this is about. And I'm sure she threw a lot of her feminine wiles at the situation. And I think probably once she was satisfied that she could capture that person's attention, she probably lost interest in him. That was just number one on your temperate pulls of power. So now we're gonna go to number two,

which is initiate less, which I feel like we covered.

Now, number three, the one with the most power is the person who has more options. Yes, just think about it in terms of pure economics. If one of the best positions to be in in the professional world is to have a counteroffer. Even if you have no intention of ever accepting it, that doesn't necessarily needs to be communicated to the other party. And now you have somebody who is willing to give you a little bit more, a little bit higher salary, a little bit more PTO. I mean, it's a powerful negotiating position. A person who has no options, it's going to be very hard to fake the confidence and equanimity that comes from, I have no plan B. Like when people have no plan B, they generally get desperate and they're then willing to do whatever it takes to get this one option.

So we've got the next one which is the person with the more power is a person that increases their optionality

So the less dependent you are the more powerful you are

Then we've got the next one which is limits their partners optionality. So talking about that. So a lot of what gets negotiated often

tacitly in romantic relationships is competition control. From a very like Machiavellian standpoint, if I wanted to set myself up as the more most powerful player in our dynamic, I would try to retain all of my options, which are your competition, while eliminating all of your options, which are my competition. Like, that would be the power move to do. And that's why so much of talks around boundaries and exclusivity seem to center around like, well, who can and cannot do what with whom? And this feels different vibe. This next part will change how you actually look at early dating moments.

Stay right here.

All right guys, we're back.

Let's get right into it.

It seems like, and please push back.

It seems like that happens more with men,

where men and more, they want to kind of not settle down yet.

They want to see their options

and still sleep with the woman,

but the woman they're sleeping with, they expect them not to sleep with anyone else. Sometimes that happens, yes. And is that a double standard? Yes. Are there plenty of double standards in dating and courtship and marriage? Yes. Do many of those double standards privilege women? Yes. So I think we do have to move away from this very rigid sense of equality equality that's like symmetrical, that what I do, I expect you to reflect back to me exactly in that way and in that intensity. What's equal isn't always fair, and what's fair isn't always equal. And in most relationships, inequality is the rule and not the exception. Inequality is the rule. That the exception. I mean, there's, if you're a woman in a situation where a man pays for everything, you probably don't feel like you're taking advantage of him if you're in that situation. You probably think, you know, this is what he wants to do. This is the kind of woman that I am. He's honoring me and my femininity and what I can provide to him. And of course, he's the man. The man takes care of that kind of stuff. And I assume that the man is there doing that because he wants to do that and he feels like doing it. Unfortunately, a lot of men do that because even though they don't really want to. So I think that builds resentment and is unsustainable in the long run. So you should really only do things because you want to do them. And if you don't want to pay for everything as a man, then don't talk and pay for everything. But that might mean that that woman is going to walk out. Fair enough. That's what she wants to do. There's a lot of asymmetry sexually as well. It's like women don't initiate sex nearly as often as men do. They don't approach men nearly as often as men approach them. You know, in 100% of my relationships, I've been the one who penetrates the woman. And it's never at some point I turn around and be like, okay, it's my turn. Like some guys might be into that, it's not my thing. But it's like no one has had a problem with that asymmetry. I give she takes. It's like, So there's so many imbalances and inequalities that are hidden in plain sight. So we're very selective about what inequalities we choose to be offended by. Oh, they're so true. And I do think ultimately though the inequalities end up probably equaling out. So it's like you have the inequality over here where like my husband will pay for a lot of things and then you have the inequality over here where I'm willing to sacrifice a lot more. I'm willing to let go of what I want. Well, let's not pretend that if you pay, you have more control. It's like he or she who pays the paper calls the tune. Like can you imagine I would just pay for you to get what you want all the time? Like, if I'm going to pay at least I have to get what I want. Like, if I'm gonna buy dinner, we're gonna go to a place that I like. Otherwise, I'm just basically a glorified servant. I'm a draft horse who just pulls you around wherever you want to go. It's like that's actually, it can become a dehumanizing position for a man to be in. Yeah. All right. So we've then got, the person with more power is the one that is less emotionally committed or less sexually excused. Yeah, the one who's less committed has less power. And that one's a very hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. I wish it weren't the truth, but I think it is. It's like it's the one who's more willing to walk away in any kind of relationship, whether it's professional or romantic. It's the one who says, you know, if this doesn't go the way I want, I'm okay walking away and going our separate ways. There's other people who would snatch me up in a second.

And I don't need to rub that in your face. Like, do you think that Leo DiCaprio reminds his girlfriends that there's like hundreds of other women who would be happy to be there? It's like, she fucking knows that. That's why she's there, right? So when you do have a lot of optionality, you can kind of speak softly and carry a big stick because it's like your reputation proceeds you

and you have that like actual pre-selection.

It's not me trying to convince you that I'm such a great catch. I can keep my mouth shut about that. I could actually be a terrible human being, but if 100 women are trying, you see them trying to get with me, you're going to think you might be a 101st. I mean, that's just a heuristic. In fact, honesty probably is not necessarily the best strategy, as certainly in the early stages of a relationship. Why'd you say that? The woman in question might say, oh, I thought this person was kind and I thought this person was honest and I thought this person was committed and I was wrong, I was betrayed, I was tricked and deceived. Okay? Well fair enough. That could happen, but it could also be the case that that person, that woman made a determination about that man's inherent qualities on too little information. Like why did this woman decide that this man who was not kind or trustworthy, or honest, was those things? I will bet you it's because she was highly attracted to him. Attractiveness creates kind of a halo effect, right? It's been well documented that if we men and women, if we find them to be beautiful or attractive, we're also more likely to think that they're smart. We're also more likely to think that they're honest. We're also more likely to think that they're kind and they're good people. That's really just your fucking attraction talking. Okay, and this is another way that women can take some of their power back is that they're tricking themselves sometimes because

their attraction is filling in the blanks that they don't have the information to fill. A lot of attraction is based on projected fantasy. A lot of attraction, especially in the early stages, is marketing, its advertisement. And both men and women, when they're successful in section marketplace, they're kind of selling an emotional experience.

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