This is a CVS I on the world. I'm John Bachelor joined by

Captain Jerry Hendricks, United States Navy Retired Aviator,

a Sagamore Institute, just returned from the Kiel International

Sea Power Symposium.

This is a conversation that is annual and it addresses issues of great concern to all the navies involved in NATO and the

European Union, sponsored by a number of organizations, not the least being the German Institute for Defense and

Strategic Studies.

The subject was the Black Sea, but add in the Baltic Sea and the Arctic Sea, because

as you all know know the reawakening of NATO has

included a confrontation on those three seas with the Russian Federation and

their fleet and their bad acting. We begin in the Black Sea

however because that has been combat these last months and the combat has been

surprising and successful.

Jerry, a very good evening to you're just back

from the Kiel International Sea Power Symposium.

First up was Learning War, lessons from the Black Sea.

Can you summarize for us? Good evening to.

Good evening, John. And although the conference was not for attribution in

Chatham House rules, the broader themes are right there in the agenda. And so I think we can go to those. So you

know three panels during the day first panel looking at you know lessons from the

Black Sea and it's very clear that this idea of warfare, specifically drone warfare versus large surface

combatant sort of traditional approaches to naval operations, has really yielded some very important lessons. The effectiveness of the

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