Hello friends, welcome back to Podcastland.

Today my guest is Rachel Kleinfeld and we're talking about the most violent societies on

earth.

Sounds like an existential crisis, but it's actually quite hopeful.

So Rachel is an advisor to the UK and US government among many other organisations and a new

book A Savage Order looks at all of the different ways that societies can organise themselves

into disarray.

So from gang violence to electoral violence, organised crime and a whole bunch of other nasty

situations you don't want to be involved in.

Rachel's done a fantastic analysis of why those situations arise, but more importantly

she's looked at the strategies which can be implemented to stop corruption and to halt

and reverse these issues and situations.

It's the mark of policy makers to strategise but not execute, I think, based on some of

the things that she says today.

And it does fill me with quite a bit of hope that we've got people like Rachel who are

not only grappling with the data but also making plans to make the world a better place.

So please welcome Rachel Kleinfeld.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back.

Rachel Kleinfeld, modern wisdom, how are you today?

Very well, great to be here Chris.

I'm really excited to speak to you today.

It's a turbulent time in politics and the 21st century for governments trying to make

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