What's up everyone?

This is Cortland from AndyHackers.com and you're listening to the IndieHackers podcast.

On this show, I talked to the founders of profitable internet businesses and I try to get a sense of what it's like to be in their shoes.

How do they get to where they are today?

How do they make decisions both at their companies and in their personal lives? And what makes their businesses tick?

Today I'm talking to Katie Keith, one half of the husband and wife duo behind a company called

Barn 2 Media. Katie, welcome to the show and thanks for joining me. Hi, everyone, and thanks for having me.

So today I have the pleasure of having you on the podcast,

but earlier this year we actually published a written interview about you and your company

on the IndieHackers website. I'm going to assume that most people listening have not read that

interview. So can you explain a little bit about what Barn 2 Media is and how exactly your company

works? We're a WordPress company founded by my husband and myself back in late 2009.

And we started off designing websites for clients, having previously quit our more traditional jobs to start our own company together.

And then in 2016, we switched from designing WordPress websites for other people

to building WordPress plugins and selling them via our own website.

So we've had a big switch.

And the article earlier this year on Indie Hackers was about how we transitioned from one to the other.

Great. And later on, we'll dive into a little bit about what WordPress is and about what WordPress plugins are for people who don't know. But first, let me say that yours is one of my favorite interviews on the site. And the reason why is that you're almost a perfect example of an indie hacker. You guys didn't take any outside funding from investors. You're a tiny team, and you want to keep it that way instead of aiming to grow to some massive size just because. And you're doing all this with the goal, I think, of being financially independent. So you have more time to live your life the way that you want to. And of course, you're happy talking about all of this in public and sharing your revenue numbers as well. So you're pretty much the most ND hacker person that I've talked to on indie hackers. Okay, excellent. Yeah,

I've always got an issue with the traditional startup culture, which seems to assume that you need

outside funding and staff and all of that. And if that's the lifestyle you want, then fine, but it feels

kind of stressful to me. So I kind of,

my husband and I built our business in the way we were comfortable with that fit with the

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