What's up, everybody? This is Cortland Allen from NDHackers.com, and you're listening to the

IndieHackers podcast. On this show, I talked to the founders of profitable internet companies

and tried to get a sense of how they got to where they are today. How do they make decisions,

both in their personal lives and at their businesses, and what

exactly makes her businesses tick? Today I am talking to Vicki Shoe. She's the founder of her company called Habitika. Vicki, thanks so much for coming on the show, and it's good to have you here. Thanks for having me, Cortland. I am excited to be here. And I'm excited to have you. I think Habitica is right at the intersection of a lot of topics that I am personally interested in.

It's a business. And I'm excited to have you. I think Habitica is right at the intersection of a lot of topics

that I am personally interested in. It's a business, and I obviously love businesses. It's a game,

and I have a long history of spending countless hours playing games. And it's also very

focused around the topic of human psychology and how we form habits. So it's a lot of stuff that I like.

But before we jump into all that, let's talk about you. I love your Twitter bio. It says Vicki

Shoe, attorney, writer, former trucker, CEO of Fabitica. So why don't you tell listeners a little bit

more about who you are? All right. I am in Vicki Sh, and I will commend you, Cortland, for pronouncing my name

correctly, even though every person with the last name H-S-C-U seems to pronounce it differently.

Yeah, so definitely an attorney and writer. I had gone, I can go through the bio really quickly, is that I had gone to law school, graduated from law school in the middle of the recession.

So 2008, people were getting their off their job offers revoked because in law school generally you interview for a firm and then have that set up and basically coast your last semester.

That did not happen.

Firms were going out of business. When I went out for interviews, it was like me, little brand new

minted law school graduate. And, you know, the guy from Columbia law who had been on Wall Street for 10 years and had just been let go and trying to compete with me for this little like one lawyer firm. So it was a rough time as an attorney. And then I got connected with a truck

and company who was having some legal issues, needed somebody to kind of just monitor the

back office operations. And I was looking at that opportunity compared to some of the offers I was getting,

which was like people who are like, oh, you know, there's a lot of competition.

We'd like to try you out for free for three months.

...