What's up everybody? This is Cortland from EndiHackers.com. And today I'm talking to Julian Shapiro, a good friend of mine who I met a couple months after launching IndieHackers. Julian runs a growth agency called Bell Curve. He started an open source application

called Velocityjs to help with animations on the web. And he's done a whole bunch of other

stuff, sold a few businesses in the past, and generally become a growth and marketing expert over the

years. How's it going, Julian? Hey, Cortland. So you and I met, I like the story. we met over the internet about a month after I launched

Indie Hackers and I was getting all sorts of messages on Twitter and over email and the really

good ones I get tend to stand out to me and yours really stood out because you basically said,

Hey, Cortland, I like Indy Hackers and I noticed that you're doing advertising and I have advertising

experience helping clients basically basically, buy ads.

So let me help you and show you how you can sell ads and do a really good job.

And not many messages come from people who recognize something that I'm trying to do

and then provide an actually helpful solution for that problem.

So that stuck with me.

And we ended up having like an hour or two phone

conversation after that, which says a lot because I'm tremendously introverted and I do not

like to talk on the phone to people. Well, I'm glad it's stuck. I would say it's because

if I ever reach out to people, it's because I first make sure I can provide value, very clear

value. And so when they click on my name, whatever my personal website is,

whatever my Twitter history is, my history of tweets reinforces the value I'm offering,

and I do so without asking for reciprocation. So in your case, if I saw some low-hanging fruit

for growth optimization, or is it, okay, you could perhaps, you know, double your conversion

rate on your homepage. And if you click on my profile, it's like, okay, this guy probably knows what he's talking about.

Then for me, it's a pleasure to hop on the phone and chat with someone who's producing work at such a high caliber.

...