Oh, hey everybody, welcome to a very special and very, I can say this because I'm not in

it, fascinating episode.

I mean, I am in it and I still will call it fascinating.

This episode, which really is centering on Willow and specifically Willow's Jewishness,

Witchiness and how those two things are in conversation with each other, was inspired, of course,

by our listenership. The folks who are in here with us, Leah Jordan and Pam Grossman are directly

from your wrecks, your recommendations. They are both Buffy fans. They are both Jewish. Pam Grossman

is a witch and it's tell you a little bit more about both of them, but you'll hear them talk about

their work in more detail in the podcast and there's way more information in the show notes as well.

Leah Jordan is a rabbi at Kehila, North London. They hail from the midwestern United States

and work as a coordinator of Azarah, which is a new initiative creating Jewish text learning for

everyone in the UK. And they're also a current and founding member of NAAA mode, which is British

Jews against occupation, movement of British Jews dedicated to ending Jewish support for the

occupation. Pam Grossman, no big deal, called the Terry Gross of Witches by Vulture. Hi,

praise. Hi, praise is the creator and host of the internationally beloved podcast The Witch Wave.

And she's also the author of a couple of books Waking the Witch, Reflections on Women,

Magic and Power, and what is a witch. I mean, these two folks are pretty suited for this conversation.

They also are, did I say, huge Buffy fans. If I did, it bears saying twice. Two perfect people.

Honestly, to populate this episode. A little behind the quick behind the scenes. Normally,

when we do a special episode like this, we'll talk to potential guests or segment folks before

we do the actual interview just to get them get a vibe, you know, see how it's going to go. And when

I got on a call with Pam and Leah, I was like, I never want to ever get off this call. I think

...